It's Good To Torque - Pilot Episode

Will Chinese cars dominate the UK? 🤔 Hosts James and Tim discuss the rapid rise of brands like Chery, MG, and BYD. Forget outdated myths; they're delivering high-quality, tech-rich EVs at aggressive prices that should worry established rivals. This isn't just a trend—it's a revolution happening at lightning speed, mirroring the Japanese auto invasion of the '70s, but faster. Tune in to WhichEV's new "It's Good to Torque" podcast to discover why your next car might be Chinese.

Transcript

00:00:14 James

Hello and welcome to the first episode of a new podcast from WhichEV.

00:00:18 James

It's good to talk, get it?

00:00:20 James

Talk as in the measure of a force's ability to cause rotation, which is something we like.

00:00:26 James

We are exceptionally funny people.

00:00:28 James

I'm James Morris, editor of Witch EV, and my new co-host is a seasoned automotive journalist, Mr Tim Barnes Clay.

00:00:35 James

He's got a double-barreled name because he's really posh.

00:00:38 James

What else should we know about you, Tim?

00:00:40 Tim

Very kind of you, James.

00:00:40 Tim

Thank you.

00:00:41 Tim

Well, I'm like you, mid-50s, been driving for a long time now, over 30 years, so I think we know a little bit about cars.

00:00:51 Tim

The electric vehicle market is something that you and I are clearly well into, and we are seen together occasionally, aren't we?

00:00:58 James

We don't really want to talk about that.

00:01:01 James

And I'm really upset that you mentioned my age because, my girlfriend's not going to, is not going to like that.

00:01:07 James

I told her I was 37.

00:01:09 Tim

Well, you know, you've had a hard life, James, but, you know, we'll forget that.

00:01:13 Tim

You've got hair.

00:01:13 Tim

Yeah, you've got hair.

00:01:14 Tim

Listen.

00:01:15 Tim

Come on.

00:01:16 James

OK, great.

00:01:17 James

I've got hair.

00:01:19 James

But let's move on from our follicles.

00:01:21 James

And for today's episode, we're going to talk about one of the most pressing issues in today's electric vehicle market.

00:01:27 James

Are the Chinese automakers going to take over?

00:01:30 James

Tim, you've just been to the launch of yet another Chinese brand in the UK, Cherry.

00:01:35 James

What did you learn and what do you think their chances are?

00:01:39 Tim

I think Cherry's chances are really very high.

00:01:43 Tim

I mean, look, they're not pure EV, at least not at the moment.

00:01:48 Tim

However, they are worth talking about because the launch in London wasn't just for a car, it was for the whole brand.

00:01:56 Tim

Now they've been around for 20 odd years anyway, in lots of other parts of the world.

00:02:01 Tim

But the Chinese brand itself says it is here, it's in the UK and it's not going anywhere.

00:02:08 Tim

That is one thing.

00:02:10 Tim

that the Cherry guys made very, very clear at the O2 in London.

00:02:15 Tim

I mean, it's not a bad thing, because they're pretty much committed to saying that there'll be a research and design centre in the UK at some stage.

00:02:26 Tim

And clearly, that's going to mean jobs for guys here in Britain.

00:02:30 Tim

So I think it's a good thing.

00:02:31 Tim

But, you know, they're coming in with a very, very aggressive pricing strategy.

00:02:38 Tim

offering, I mean, we've not driven these cars yet, but they're offering what look like really good SUVs, really well equipped.

00:02:45 Tim

At the moment, there's the Tiggo 7 that they're launching here, which is available now.

00:02:52 Tim

we're in September.

00:02:53 Tim

And also the Tiggo 8.

00:02:55 Tim

Now Cherry's got loads of other cars out there, but they're the first two that will be hitting 25 different dealerships now across the United Kingdom.

00:03:06 Tim

So

00:03:08 Tim

It's hard and fast.

00:03:09 Tim

The launch has happened and suddenly we've got two new cars out there that are both really well priced.

00:03:15 Tim

So I do think that established, possibly even established luxury brands might start to worry if they're not worried already about the rise of the Chinese.

00:03:25 James

Now, although we maybe haven't heard of Cherry so much in the UK before, unless you're a follower of the electric car market,

00:03:33 James

That's actually not the first Cherry cars to hit the UK, is it?

00:03:37 James

Because Amoda and Jaiku are also brands owned by the Cherry company.

00:03:42 James

I think we sometimes in the UK don't realise just how massive these Chinese companies already are.

00:03:48 James

I mean, Cherry, I should have looked up the figures before the podcast.

00:03:52 James

I'm a bad journalist.

00:03:53 James

You know, the Amoda is doing quite well.

00:03:55 James

Jaiku seems to be selling.

00:03:57 James

You know, you've driven

00:03:59 James

the Emoda cars, you've driven the Jaiku cars.

00:04:02 James

What do you think of them?

00:04:03 James

Because Emoda is doing electric cars.

00:04:05 James

Jaiku's just about, they've not been doing electric cars, but they're just about to launch into the electric space.

00:04:10 James

What do you think of what they're offering?

00:04:12 Tim

Well, you see, listen, first of all, I'd say Jaiku, but it's like tomato, tomato, Jaiku, Jaiku.

00:04:17 Tim

But I know at the moment they're pronouncing it Jaiku here.

00:04:20 Tim

It doesn't matter either way.

00:04:21 Tim

But Emoda and Jaiku, yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:04:25 Tim

these are the sister brands of Cherry, owned by Cherry.

00:04:29 Tim

And now I spent a good week actually with the JQ7 Super Hybrid and also got to drive the Moda 9, not here, but out in South Africa.

00:04:44 Tim

And the conditions there were pretty amazing.

00:04:47 Tim

I mean, it was sunny one moment, it was wet the next.

00:04:50 Tim

It was actually a bit like the UK, you know, four seasons in one day.

00:04:54 Tim

Very, very good cars.

00:04:56 Tim

They are heavily reliant, as many cars are these days, on the central infotainment touchscreen.

00:05:03 Tim

But, you know, I've seen just as a normal non-journo, just walking around the streets, I've seen lots of Jaykus, lots of the Sevens, and lots of Emotors just suddenly just driving around.

00:05:17 Tim

And I think that they already are becoming very, very successful.

00:05:21 Tim

In fact,

00:05:23 Tim

the Cherry execs were saying, because of the very early success of their sister brands, the Moto and JQ, that this has given them the confidence to launch Cherry as its own brand here in the UK.

00:05:34 Tim

So, you know, I think there is every kind of pointer to the fact that success will happen for Cherry.

00:05:45 Tim

It's going to happen.

00:05:47 Tim

And I think that any company that's pretty much saying,

00:05:51 Tim

we're going to be providing jobs in the not too distant future is going to be a winner for the British people.

00:05:56 James

So you said it was four seasons in one day.

00:05:58 James

Was that where you were staying as well on that trip?

00:06:00 Tim

Yeah.

00:06:00 Tim

Oh, very good, very good.

00:06:01 Tim

Well, yes.

00:06:04 Tim

Not really.

00:06:04 Tim

No, sometimes a hotel, sometimes some sort of animal sanctuaries and what have you.

00:06:08 Tim

So we did go other people.

00:06:09 James

You must have felt really at home there.

00:06:12 Tim

What?

00:06:14 Tim

What are you trying to suggest, James?

00:06:17 Tim

Yeah, I did feel very, very at home.

00:06:19 Tim

Some of the wild dogs that we ended up having to pass.

00:06:21 Tim

I'm thinking more than.

00:06:22 James

Maybe the monkey house, but moving swiftly on from your simian escapades, obviously the Chinese brand that we're all most familiar with in the UK, I think most people do know they're actually a Chinese brand now, it's MG.

00:06:37 James

And you know,

00:06:38 James

They're kind of interesting.

00:06:40 James

I mean, I've just been reading a really interesting book by a guy called Mark Andrews called Driving the Dragon, The Rise of the Chinese Car Industry.

00:06:48 James

And I kind of knew this already, but you know...

00:06:52 James

the kind of history of how MG ended up being a Chinese brand is also kind of very fundamental to how the Chinese car industry really took off.

00:07:02 James

Because if you go, I mean, it's incredible, 20 years ago, there were virtually no cars being made in China.

00:07:08 James

You know, they had some joint ventures, some company saw the possibilities of that market.

00:07:14 James

There weren't very many local cars.

00:07:15 James

I mean, I think the first

00:07:18 James

I've seen some conflicts about this, but I think the first time they even built cars in China was something like mid-1950s of any kind.

00:07:26 James

I think that was a kind of a rebadge of a Willis Jeep.

00:07:30 James

But MG, you know, when MG was trying to save itself with a joint venture in China with a company called Brilliance, that I believe fell through.

00:07:41 James

And then basically SAIC or Psychus, we sometimes

00:07:46 James

No, which is a primarily nationally owned automaker in China.

00:07:52 James

They have a number of different brands.

00:07:54 James

They bought the MG and they bought MG's tooling and it's a brand and they took everything over.

00:08:03 James

The Rover bit of MG Rover switched I think to

00:08:09 James

to when we'd Land Rover, so that brand didn't come with them.

00:08:13 James

And it was, and maybe if you went back about 20 years ago, the most advanced car on the roads in China was a kind of upgraded version of the Rover 75, and most of their cars were pretty poor.

00:08:29 James

I mean, I think that's a big revelation right now is the Chinese cars, you know, you're on social media, you're talking about a Chinese car and some,

00:08:38 James

Lumpy will come in and say, Oh, they're terribly made, you know, don't Chinese rubbish, completely wrong.

00:08:44 James

The Chinese cars are brilliantly made now.

00:08:46 James

They're very well constructed.

00:08:48 Tim

Yeah, this is very reminiscent, actually, of probably around 20, maybe 30 years ago when we had all those Skoda jokes and, you know, look where we are now with Skoda and you only have to talk to people in their 30s and below.

00:09:02 Tim

In fact, maybe...

00:09:03 James

Well, they're Japanese.

00:09:04 Tim

Yeah, and no one, no one can believe these jokes used to exist.

00:09:08 Tim

these thirty-year-olds can't believe that we take the Mickey out of Skodas.

00:09:11 Tim

They're like, What?

00:09:12 Tim

These are decent, premium in some respects cars, but you're right, when I was very small and you were very small in the 70s, where suddenly, I remember...

00:09:22 James

Depending I wasn't born in the 70s.

00:09:25 Tim

Hang on, I've just helped you out there.

00:09:26 Tim

I think it was the 60s you were born, wasn't it, James?

00:09:29 Tim

no, we must be quiet.

00:09:31 Tim

So I remember, having neighbours that suddenly were owning, what were those?

00:09:35 Tim

Was it the Datsun 120 Y's, things like that?

00:09:39 Tim

And people being very interested in what these things were.

00:09:41 James

240Z, I mean, come on.

00:09:43 James

I mean, isn't that one of the most gorgeous cars ever made?

00:09:46 Tim

It still looks sexy to this day.

00:09:48 James

Totally.

00:09:49 Tim

The Japanese, I mean, maybe late 60s, but it was really the early 70s and straight through 70s into the 80s.

00:09:55 Tim

I think, I can't remember.

00:09:56 Tim

When did Datsun suddenly become Nissan?

00:09:58 Tim

Do you remember?

00:09:58 Tim

There was a sort of.

00:10:00 James

I'm too young to remember.

00:10:01 Tim

Of course you are, of course you are.

00:10:03 Tim

But it is.

00:10:04 Tim

We're there now, aren't we?

00:10:05 Tim

I think the Chinese cars coming here, we are going through what happened back in the 70s with the Japanese cars.

00:10:14 James

But I would argue it's happening faster with the Chinese.

00:10:17 Tim

Yeah, it's I mean, obviously as a kid, it's hard to sort of remember how, you know, quickly it all happened.

00:10:23 Tim

But yeah, it is.

00:10:24 Tim

It seems to be happening.

00:10:26 Tim

I mean,

00:10:27 Tim

JQ feels like it's been around a long time.

00:10:30 Tim

So does a motor.

00:10:30 Tim

A motor's only been around one year, I think, in the UK now, right?

00:10:35 Tim

JQ less.

00:10:36 Tim

And already, they're doing incredibly well.

00:10:40 Tim

And it isn't just spin, you know, as I say, you can see the cars on the roads.

00:10:43 Tim

And that's a.

00:10:43 Tim

Yeah, I see them all the time.

00:10:46 James

There's one, there's one that part when I, when I go off to my local sports centre, I'll often see one part there.

00:10:53 James

And you have to say, it does look nice, although I've not I've not heard that they're the greatest of cars, but for the money they're excellent.

00:11:01 Tim

For the money they are.

00:11:02 Tim

And it spends, you know, like with all cars, it depends what you're coming from, you know, if you've been driving a Beamer or an Audi or whatever, and then suddenly you're in these, then I don't think you'll be that disappointed, but they, I mean, they don't they don't drive quite like a German prestige car, but they're not, you know, they've got a long way to go, but they're not going to necessarily

00:11:21 Tim

take too long to get there because the Chinese are learning, I think.

00:11:25 James

As auto journalists, we're a bit spoiled.

00:11:28 James

we judge everything too highly.

00:11:30 James

And a lot of people, it's that whole kind of thing that James May used to go on about Nurburgring times being irrelevant for most car buyers.

00:11:37 James

You know, on the one hand, you sad old git, but on the other hand,

00:11:41 James

He's absolutely right, because, the majority of people do not buy cars because they're naught to 60.

00:11:48 James

They don't, they, if they can get a decently priced car that's got a good level of equipmentation, is that even a word?

00:11:57 James

I've just submitted a new word of equipmentation for the money, you've got level of equipmentation, the, you know, the quality of the build, and if you get that for a for a low price, and I think one of the things that really jumped out at me was, you know, as

00:12:12 James

more regular listeners to the previous version of this podcast will know I've owned a Tesla for five years.

00:12:18 James

I'm sorry, I got it before Elon went crazy.

00:12:22 James

But you know, my one was one of the last year or so that were built in Fremont in America.

00:12:28 James

And everybody in the Tesla forums in the UK was really happy when they switched production to China, because all this stuff about panel gaps and low quality production

00:12:38 James

really phase out because the Chinese cars were built better than the ones built in America.

00:12:43 James

It was a kind of, I have no evidence of that, but that was the, but that certainly was what the popular opinion was of people who'd owned cars across that period was the Chinese ones.

00:12:54 James

And I think if we, I mean, you know, we were talking about MG, you know, and you can see this in the evolution of MG.

00:13:00 James

You know, if you think about MGZS,

00:13:04 James

that sort of approved a little bit, that then MG5 a bit better, MG4 a bit better, but still incredible value, then they had the Halo Cyberster.

00:13:15 James

I mean, have you driven the MG S5 EV?

00:13:19 Tim

No, I haven't, not yet, no.

00:13:21 James

I mean, I've had one, we've got a review coming out in a few weeks on which EV, but it's a, I think it's a superb car.

00:13:28 James

It's the best yet in terms of interiors.

00:13:31 James

And it's a little bit more expensive than the previous MGs, but still, really, really good.

00:13:37 James

And I think it's going to be, it's going to be another hit because, you know, it's got a little bit more range than the outgoing ZS.

00:13:43 James

The quality is really up there.

00:13:45 James

The price is only a little bit more expensive as well.

00:13:48 James

And obviously, we've both just recently been to the launch of

00:13:51 James

the new sub-brand, the IM5, IM6.

00:13:55 James

I mean, maybe you want to talk about what I'd love to hear your experience of.

00:13:59 James

We've actually talked about what you felt about those cars, because I loved them.

00:14:03 Tim

Yeah, I really, really like them.

00:14:04 Tim

I mean, talk about fast.

00:14:06 James

I mean, 760 horsepower or something, isn't it?

00:14:10 James

The top one on both of those?

00:14:13 Tim

Yeah.

00:14:13 Tim

I mean, look, the irony here is only a few minutes ago we were saying, hey, people don't really care.

00:14:18 Tim

And I think people don't care generally about

00:14:21 Tim

cars as much as we think they do.

00:14:23 Tim

I think especially youngsters, I mean, my son, he likes them, but then he's had me always having new cars to drive.

00:14:30 Tim

But generally, I think the average population, certainly just speaking to people at the gym or wherever, and they'll say, look, I don't really care as long as the car, hey, I can afford the monthly payments or occasionally someone might buy one outright.

00:14:42 Tim

Is it safe?

00:14:43 Tim

And does it just start every time?

00:14:44 Tim

That's all I need, a reliable car.

00:14:46 Tim

And as I'm getting older, all I want is a reliable car.

00:14:48 Tim

That's what I need.

00:14:49 Tim

But I do think comfort comes into it.

00:14:51 Tim

And it sounds really so old to say it.

00:14:53 Tim

But when I got in the IM5 and then the IM6, I was like, wow, these cars are super comfortable.

00:14:59 Tim

Yeah, they're really quick.

00:15:00 Tim

And it's quite a laugh, actually, when you do put your foot down.

00:15:03 Tim

But I don't need to explain to you or anyone else listening or watching this that, you know, there are speed cameras in this small island we inhabit just seemingly everywhere now.

00:15:11 Tim

And so

00:15:13 Tim

I question whether you need cars that quick, but it was probably the closest thing.

00:15:17 James

The reason not the need.

00:15:18 James

Yeah.

00:15:20 Tim

Well, it's like the need and the want.

00:15:22 Tim

But it's, you know, sitting in those cars, it was sort of the nearest thing to being in a German exam.

00:15:29 James

In a German, like.

00:15:31 Tim

Yeah, Now that could be a whole different cars.

00:15:32 Tim

What?

00:15:33 James

You get up to in your spare time is entirely up to you, but don't make it too public, Tim.

00:15:38 Tim

Listen, sitting in a German car is still sort of seen as a pretty good thing.

00:15:44 Tim

a lot of people still have that up there.

00:15:46 Tim

they want a BMW, want an Audi.

00:15:49 James

Mercedes, I believe, is another German brand.

00:15:51 Tim

Mercedes, but even less than that, some people I know are quite happy to have the buck stop at a BW.

00:15:56 Tim

They just want to have a BW Golf or a Passat.

00:15:59 Tim

They see that as

00:16:00 Tim

the pinnacle of their aspiration.

00:16:01 Tim

I think it's because it's a real, it's an aspiration where you can genuinely achieve it.

00:16:05 Tim

Aston Martin's always kind of things all very well and good, but I think that if you can really aim and work like a dog to get something.

00:16:12 James

You get Aston Martin, don't you?

00:16:14 James

You've just been driving.

00:16:15 Tim

Yeah, I mean, it's great.

00:16:16 Tim

It's really lovely.

00:16:16 Tim

But I think one of the good things about this job is that you can drive your dream cars and then hand it back and go, you know what?

00:16:22 Tim

Would I really would I really spend, you know, 100K on that?

00:16:26 James

Well, I mean, the best car I've ever driven is the Remass Nevera.

00:16:30 James

Would I really spend 2 million EUR?

00:16:32 James

Well, I wouldn't be actually be able to.

00:16:34 James

So it's all relative.

00:16:35 Tim

I mean, you never know what you're going to earn.

00:16:37 Tim

But the thing is...

00:16:37 James

Well, when this podcast becomes really famous, then maybe I'll get my have my Navera parked outside.

00:16:44 Tim

You just don't know, James, but...

00:16:45 James

For about 10 minutes before it gets nicked.

00:16:48 Tim

Listen, going back to the MG IM5 and the IM6, I was really impressed.

00:16:52 Tim

I mean, some people say, oh, they didn't handle that well.

00:16:55 Tim

But you know what?

00:16:56 Tim

I think the average person is going to get in one of those and they're going to go, wow, this is comfy.

00:17:00 Tim

Wow, it feels solid.

00:17:01 Tim

Does what it says on the tin.

00:17:02 Tim

Yeah, it's quick when it used to be.

00:17:04 Tim

It's quite easy to park.

00:17:05 Tim

It looks good.

00:17:06 Tim

That's a really shallow thing to say, but you're going to spend that kind of money on anything.

00:17:11 Tim

You know, if you're spending 20, 30, 40, 50 grand on a car,

00:17:14 Tim

whatever monthly payments they're going to be.

00:17:15 Tim

You want something to look good on your drive as well.

00:17:17 Tim

That's the other thing I think people do secretly not admit to as much as they should.

00:17:23 James

And the tech in those cars, I mean, I mean, I mean, they've got rear wheel steering, you know, so I would argue actually, you know, I've got a Tesla Model 3 performance, and frankly, round London, it's a bit shocking because the suspension's so hard.

00:17:40 James

It's a bit, you know, I know Tesla's sorted that out with the

00:17:44 James

more recent, the Highland new Model 3 and the new Model Ys ride much better than the previous versions.

00:17:52 James

But the ride quality on the IM5 is definitely better.

00:17:55 James

And with the rear wheel steering, it's actually a little bit more manoeuvrable.

00:17:57 James

But I don't know if you tried the kind of retrace my steps thing that those cars have.

00:18:03 James

They have the kind of like 5 clever auto parking things.

00:18:08 James

And the retracing of the steps thing is incredible.

00:18:12 James

You kind of, the whole idea

00:18:14 James

The idea behind it is you've gone down a narrow lane, you realise it's a cul-de-sac and you can't turn around.

00:18:19 James

So you just say, retrace my steps and it'll take you back something like 100 metres automatically because it's recorded the whole thing.

00:18:26 James

And it's scarily good.

00:18:30 James

I've tried it out a couple of times at the press launch.

00:18:33 James

You know, if you could get you out of a

00:18:37 James

kind of a bit of, if you're sat now, take you down, or, suddenly you get to the road, the road edge, and it's got like a, there's a barrier there.

00:18:45 James

Pretty incredible.

00:18:48 Tim

It is incredible.

00:18:49 Tim

Sorry to interrupt, but one thing I do, one thing I do wonder, is it blunting our driving skills?

00:18:56 Tim

Because so for years, for years, a lot of us have had, you know, reversing parking sensors and front parking sensors, right?

00:19:05 Tim

And

00:19:07 Tim

most press cars we get, you and I, to drive will have a reversing camera, 360, camera views these days, and you can park pretty easily wherever you go.

00:19:19 Tim

Now, I jumped into my daughter's 12-year-old Corsa, and it's got nothing like that on it.

00:19:26 Tim

And I was sort of shocked that I had to actually properly turn my head and

00:19:31 Tim

You look in the mirrors.

00:19:32 James

At least you still can.

00:19:33 James

I have trouble with that.

00:19:34 Tim

Your old neck starts.

00:19:35 James

Even though I'm only in my 30s.

00:19:37 Tim

Yeah, you have to say the hard life, that paper around you when you were young.

00:19:40 Tim

But no, I mean, I do wonder, are these cars now, I mean, yes, they're making life stress-free and Lord knows we all need a bit of a stress-free life these days because of all that's going on in the world.

00:19:49 Tim

But are they blunting our driving skills?

00:19:52 Tim

So my daughter's about to take her driving test this month and she still has to do all the kind of correct things where you drive

00:19:59 Tim

to what the instructor and examiner wants to see.

00:20:02 Tim

The rest of us, once you pass, we tend to get a little bit lazy, don't we?

00:20:05 Tim

Yeah.

00:20:06 Tim

So are these cars, are these cars making us more lazy, James?

00:20:09 Tim

Because when was the last time you drove a manual, for instance?

00:20:15 James

It was a couple of weeks ago in my extremely middle class holiday in the Canaries.

00:20:23 James

They still seem to give you manual hire cars.

00:20:25 James

And the previous time I drove a manual,

00:20:28 James

was my holiday last year.

00:20:31 James

But I mean, I did own a manual car because I had a had a Porsche for about 13 years.

00:20:38 James

And frankly, I loved that car.

00:20:39 James

I love that 968, loved it a bit.

00:20:42 James

It's a beautiful car, great to drive, but I tell you what, get stuck in traffic on the North Circular and it has a very heavy clutch.

00:20:48 James

My left ankle just hurt like bejesus.

00:20:52 James

Apologies for the religious listener.

00:20:55 Tim

It's true.

00:20:55 Tim

It's true.

00:20:55 Tim

I'll always choose if I could like I'm going to go to Heath.

00:20:58 Tim

throw a bit later this month from the Midlands or Gatwick, which is even further.

00:21:02 Tim

And yeah, you always get in a queue, whatever happens on the M25.

00:21:05 Tim

And yeah, you feel, well, I feel knackered once I've got to the other end with a manual.

00:21:12 Tim

But yeah, with an auto, it does make life easier.

00:21:16 Tim

So that's I think the first step to showing your age and also showing that.

00:21:23 James

Yeah, a lot of kids are now taking auto-only driving tests.

00:21:27 James

I mean, I've tried to get my kids to take manual, but I think only one of them is going to do that, because, to be honest, by the time in five years' time, I think there's going to be fewer and fewer.

00:21:37 James

I think I saw some percentages.

00:21:38 James

I think it's like only 10% of cars are manual now on the market.

00:21:43 James

Anyway, I will kind of, I think we digressed a little bit there, and I wanted to kind of talk about another really important brand that's hit the UK.

00:21:49 James

I think one of the one of the things is

00:21:52 James

I wanted to mention is how, I've been covering Chinese cars for a while, and I've been lucky enough to be flown out for launches of Chinese cars for a couple of years now in Europe, because a lot of these manufacturers were launching in Europe, but obviously Europe brought in

00:22:08 James

the EU anyway brought in these big tariffs on BEVs, which has made it less attractive and made it more difficult for them to compete in Europe.

00:22:18 James

And suddenly they've taken the UK a lot more seriously, which is why we know we've had a slew, and we'll mention a few more of these brands, but probably the biggest launch in the last couple of years is, you know, BYD, you know, and I've got a BYD.

00:22:32 James

This is one of their sub brands, Yang Wang, the

00:22:36 James

enticingly named Yang Wang U9, which is a speed record for a production electric car.

00:22:44 James

So that's a 3000, that's got 50% more horsepower power.

00:22:49 James

I really can't speak today than the romantic era, which is, you know, was had a record for the fastest accelerating

00:22:58 James

car beat the model S Plaid.

00:23:00 James

But I don't think we're seeing that in the UK anytime soon.

00:23:03 James

But BYD, they launched the Atto 3.

00:23:06 James

The Atto 2 is going to be launched, well, when we're recording this podcast in the UK tomorrow, but actually probably by the time you're listening to this a week or two ago.

00:23:18 James

And then they've had, you know, the seal, see quite a lot of seals on the surf as well, of course, the dolphin.

00:23:28 James

the penguin, and then there's the platypus.

00:23:32 James

That's another one.

00:23:32 James

No, they're not.

00:23:34 James

I'm pre-styling a bit there, but did they actually call them the ocean?

00:23:38 James

Was that your thing?

00:23:40 James

But they're not all at sea, that's for sure.

00:23:41 James

They're selling, they're selling very well.

00:23:44 James

They're coming in, they're riding the wave.

00:23:46 Tim

They are riding the wave.

00:23:49 Tim

And you can see on which EVs issue channel many.

00:23:53 Tim

Well, I think it's I think it's at least two or three BYD.

00:23:56 James

We've got the Sea Lion 7, which is quite promising.

00:24:02 James

It's a good little car.

00:24:03 James

I mean, I actually like the Seal more than the Sea Lion 7.

00:24:06 James

I thought the, I mean, the Dolphin Surf though, I mean, that's a cute little car, isn't it?

00:24:10 Tim

It's a cute little car.

00:24:11 Tim

I think, you know, certainly,

00:24:14 Tim

I liked it.

00:24:14 Tim

You liked it.

00:24:15 Tim

It's a cute car.

00:24:16 Tim

It's a bit of TARDIS from what I remember inside.

00:24:19 Tim

And yeah, it just looks good, which I know sounds shallow again, but it worked where the launch was, which is in the middle of London.

00:24:25 James

Definitely.

00:24:26 Tim

You know, I don't think we've got over 40 miles an hour, but we certainly managed to weave our way through the busy streets.

00:24:33 James

We ragged the bejesus out of it.

00:24:35 Tim

We ragged it later.

00:24:36 Tim

Round the car park.

00:24:38 Tim

I mean, that's obviously it's a bit of a young demographic, I think, looking at that car.

00:24:42 Tim

It's for people like me.

00:24:44 Tim

Yeah, for people like you with a young mind, that's what you need.

00:24:48 Tim

And yeah, the seal, yeah, a really good car.

00:24:50 Tim

And of course,

00:24:52 Tim

BYD, we'll have Tesla worrying.

00:24:57 James

The news was that, they're outselling Tesla now in Europe at least.

00:25:02 Tim

Yeah, and I do wonder sometimes where that news comes from.

00:25:05 Tim

I think it's true, but I do think that...

00:25:07 James

Only those were Jatto's statistics.

00:25:09 James

I mean, I know, I mean, I've written extensively about this, the fact that, you know, the some journalists look at figures, they can't tell the difference between growth and...

00:25:19 James

if a gross figure goes down, they think sales are dropping, but actually no, just the rate of growth is dropping.

00:25:26 James

And similarly, a lot of people do not understand Tesla's rather unique and special cycles.

00:25:33 James

they always sell a lot at the end of 1/4 because they have a big push and then they drop at the beginning of the next one.

00:25:40 James

So, when do the quarters, and then they pick up again.

00:25:44 James

So basically,

00:25:46 James

January, February, March.

00:25:47 James

March is usually a big one.

00:25:50 James

Then it also comes after March.

00:25:51 Tim

Oh, April.

00:25:52 James

April.

00:25:54 James

April, May, June.

00:25:54 James

So June, June was quite a big one.

00:25:57 James

Because that also was when the new model Y.

00:25:59 James

But that's the other factor is the new model Y hadn't come out and hadn't started really shipping until June of this year.

00:26:06 James

So July, you'd expect a fall.

00:26:09 James

August, I don't think we haven't had August figures yet.

00:26:12 James

So those are based on July figures and there would definitely have been a fall.

00:26:16 James

in July figures for Tesla because they always do the first month of 1/4, they always fall for Tesla.

00:26:25 James

So that's, but I mean, I think BYD, they've got, they're huge, they've got a lot, they're very vertical company.

00:26:30 James

They make everything.

00:26:32 James

They make their own batteries and they've also, you know, they've got the blade battery.

00:26:36 James

It's their own special design.

00:26:37 James

It's LFP, lithium ion phosphate.

00:26:41 James

It's got a good, very good reputation for durability and safety.

00:26:46 James

safety, LFP is starting to, and that's another story.

00:26:49 James

We'll mention that a little bit in passing, but I think, BYD could be, I mean, they, I believe in terms of what they call new energy vehicles, they are the biggest manufacturer in the world.

00:27:02 James

Yeah, and it doesn't mean battery electric vehicles, though.

00:27:06 Tim

Quite a few journalists have gone to work for BYD recently, so you know, it shows these guys, these guys aren't sure of a quality.

00:27:12 James

But it's still on my CV.

00:27:13 James

I'm sure they pay quite well.

00:27:15 Tim

And I, with Elon being the way he was, I think people are delighted to give any news that seems good against Tesla at the moment.

00:27:26 Tim

So again, you wonder.

00:27:27 James

They're a little bit torn when it's Chinese though.

00:27:29 Tim

Yeah, they are.

00:27:30 Tim

And I.

00:27:32 Tim

when you look at BYD, again, from a very shallow kind of point of view, it's a good looking car generally.

00:27:38 Tim

It's models that they put out there, the seal in particular.

00:27:41 Tim

People that aren't into BVs at all, and people won't understand that half of what we talk about when we're talking about

00:27:48 Tim

kilowatt hours and what have you.

00:27:50 Tim

But if you just say to them, what do you prefer, that or that?

00:27:52 Tim

They'll go, oh, I know Tesla's electric.

00:27:53 Tim

Was that electric?

00:27:54 Tim

Well, that looks good.

00:27:55 Tim

I prefer that.

00:27:56 Tim

So all people want to know is the range half the time.

00:27:59 Tim

But when you start talking about batteries, like the blade battery, because I know BYD make a big deal about that.

00:28:04 Tim

It's true though, because if you can start manufacturing your own batteries as well, then you've got, you know, you're in more control, aren't you?

00:28:10 James

Yeah.

00:28:11 James

I mean, I think,

00:28:12 James

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I found that the BYD cars, because they use lithium iron phosphate, which means they're a little bit heavier than some other cars for the amount of kilowatt hours they have, the efficiency and range isn't quite as good as some of the other entries.

00:28:27 James

I mean, I think the C-Line 7, I think I was a little bit, it wasn't quite, didn't go quite as far as some other cars with that capacity of battery.

00:28:36 Tim

Aren't they safer as well, these blade batteries?

00:28:39 James

I mean, for puncture puncture ring, yeah, they're definitely safer.

00:28:41 James

I mean, that you can, if you drive a nail through an NMC battery, it's quite likely to explode.

00:28:46 James

But if you drive a nail through a lithium iron phosphate battery, it's much less likely to explode.

00:28:52 Tim

So is there a worry there for sort of people that are new to EVs that if they were unfortunately in a car accident?

00:28:59 James

I think we should probably do a whole addition on that in the future.

00:29:05 James

So watch this space, listeners, or listen to this space.

00:29:08 Tim

I mean, no worse, no worse than a tank of fuel below you, though, I guess, you know.

00:29:12 James

Well, exactly.

00:29:12 James

I mean, electric car fires, they don't, they kind of, they

00:29:18 James

they give you time to get out of the car and then they last about 7 years of burning.

00:29:22 James

So another brand we should talk about is Geely, again, which is probably a company that many listeners who aren't avid followers of the car industry, they might not have heard of that brand, but they own loads of brands that you do know.

00:29:37 James

They're in Volvo, they're in Lotus, you know.

00:29:40 James

So, you know, all the Lotus electric cars are actually built in China.

00:29:46 James

by the Geely Corporation.

00:29:48 James

I think they own, there's something very weird about how they have all the petrol bit is not entirely owned by them.

00:29:55 James

And I think they also own a company called Zika, which makes them really, I really like their, then if you've had a chance to look at their 7X SUV and their 001, they make some really nice cars.

00:30:09 James

Zika Premium and Smart, it's a co-

00:30:14 James

a joint venture between Geely and Mercedes.

00:30:16 James

And the #1 is a pretty nice car.

00:30:20 James

Hashtag 3 is also good.

00:30:23 James

They've got this SUV just coming out called #5, which I have to say, I really, really like the #5.

00:30:31 James

It's very funky.

00:30:33 James

And then they've got, they're just literally today when we're recording this podcast, they announced the return of what was the 42, it's now the #2.

00:30:43 James

the little tiny two-seater.

00:30:46 James

Have you driven the electric 4-2?

00:30:48 Tim

No, I haven't, but I...

00:30:50 James

So fun.

00:30:51 Tim

Talking about smart cars, obviously, I remember when they were a big deal.

00:30:55 Tim

I mean, I probably first ever drove one of those back in about, I don't know, 2001, two, something like that.

00:31:00 James

Yeah.

00:31:01 Tim

Tiny little things.

00:31:02 Tim

Great parking.

00:31:03 Tim

That was the whole thing about them, wasn't it?

00:31:05 James

Well, I mean, I had one, it was during COVID and I had to go and get my COVID jab.

00:31:11 James

because I believe in vaccines.

00:31:13 James

And I was driving down the road and I saw the place where I was supposed to have my jab.

00:31:20 James

And then there was a parking space literally opposite.

00:31:23 James

And I was able to do a U-turn on a typical London rd to go straight into that space because the turning circle on that thing is just, and it's so short, insane.

00:31:33 James

So I mean, they, and they also own this company that's producing an electric

00:31:39 James

pure, pure play electric vans in the UK.

00:31:41 James

I was called Ferizon.

00:31:43 James

I was driving one of theirs yesterday for a bunch of hours on the EV rally.

00:31:48 James

So I did a stage, some of the first day stage of the EV rally with them and I drove their panel van, which gets a little about 200 miles of range.

00:31:59 James

And it's, you know, a big, big L3

00:32:02 James

H3 van, super high, loads of loads of space in the back.

00:32:07 Tim

We drove that together at the SMMT.

00:32:09 James

Absolutely.

00:32:09 James

You've given that as well, haven't you, on a test track?

00:32:12 Tim

No, that was the society of most manufacturers and traders day for journos to drive pretty much every brand they can get their hands on that's there.

00:32:22 Tim

And that was one of them.

00:32:23 Tim

And I was impressed.

00:32:24 Tim

You were with me.

00:32:25 Tim

We should get out on the hill route, which is a bit of an alpine kind of piney.

00:32:28 James

Because that's what you're going to do with a big fan.

00:32:30 James

That's what you're going to do.

00:32:32 Tim

Take it around a twisty twisty.

00:32:34 James

Exactly.

00:32:34 Tim

And that was the route we were shown, which was bizarre.

00:32:37 Tim

But anyway, we did it.

00:32:38 Tim

I think they had a bunch of water, loads of water in the back door.

00:32:42 James

If you got thirsty.

00:32:44 Tim

Yeah, if you got thirsty and tied down to show you how the load.

00:32:47 James

Let's not get into your what you do with your free climb again.

00:32:50 Tim

Let's not get into that.

00:32:52 Tim

But anyway, I was very impressed.

00:32:53 Tim

I mean, you know, it was quite plasticky inside, but hey, you know, it's a van at the end of the day.

00:32:57 Tim

Who cares?

00:32:58 James

Don't do yourself down.

00:32:59 Tim

It's fine.

00:33:01 Tim

But is it Farazan or Farazan?

00:33:05 James

I suspect it's a play on far horizon.

00:33:11 James

That's my guess.

00:33:11 James

I need to talk about that.

00:33:13 Tim

Now, going on that, sorry, just to rewind all the way back to the beginning when we're talking about Cherry, a play on words.

00:33:19 Tim

So, Cherry, I have to say, I meant to say to you, Cherry is called Cherry because it's based on the word Cheery.

00:33:28 James

All right.

00:33:28 James

I was going to say more Cherie.

00:33:31 Tim

It could be as well, but no, they say it's all about the British or the English word, cheery.

00:33:36 Tim

So they want to bring happiness to our shores.

00:33:41 Tim

That's what it's all about, even though it's been around for years before that, you know, cheery, cherry.

00:33:47 James

Well, I mean, they do have some unusual brand names in China, but my favourite being a brand of

00:33:54 James

groceries you get in China called Boy and Shrimp brand, which is a boy and a shrimp the size of the boy as the kind of symbol of it.

00:34:03 Tim

But does it, I was going to say, so you.

00:34:06 James

Have a car, Boy and Shrimp car, car brand.

00:34:10 Tim

I mean, listen, I mean, does it translate?

00:34:13 Tim

Because there have been car names that haven't translated well to other countries over the years that are quite famous that we don't have to go into.

00:34:21 Tim

But

00:34:22 Tim

you'd have thought that people would have done their research into naming a car, let alone brand, before they launched it.

00:34:27 James

I mean, some of these names are, I mean, I mean, I don't think we don't want to go into every single brand too much, but GWM, Aura, Great Wall Motors, you know, that's, it's called the Funky Cat originally.

00:34:39 James

I think they've stopped calling it the Funky Cat now.

00:34:40 Tim

Yeah, they have, they have, yeah.

00:34:42 Tim

Well, we I think we filmed it when it was called Funky Cat, didn't we?

00:34:44 James

Yes.

00:34:45 James

And then there's, you know, Leap Motor, I don't think that's such a bad brand.

00:34:49 James

I mean, I think

00:34:50 James

I mean, I think, we've both driven the T03 and I think we agree that is a car that has a lot of potential because it's pretty good value.

00:34:59 James

It's a cut above the data spring and, pulled back the same money in terms of...

00:35:07 Tim

Yeah, there's a video on which EV showing us driving that.

00:35:11 Tim

And yeah, I mean, in fact, Leap Motor, which is

00:35:16 Tim

it's got a partnership with Stellantis, which for those of you who might not know, Stellantis is like a super group, only how many brands, James?

00:35:24 Tim

Eight, 9.

00:35:26 James

I think if you include the American ones, it's about 13, actually.

00:35:29 James

Maserati, which is, you know, a bit of a surprise, and Alfa Romeo.

00:35:35 Tim

So what, eight or nine in this country, but then Vauxhall, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen, DS, you name it.

00:35:42 Tim

Now.

00:35:43 James

It's like the traveling Wilburys of car brands.

00:35:44 Tim

Well, again, yes, you are showing your age now, you are, with that band.

00:35:49 James

That's my brother and sister told me about that.

00:35:52 Tim

But yeah, the T03, when we were at the Elite Motor launch for that, they wheeled in a Dacia spring, didn't they, to show that's the nearest rival and what do we think?

00:36:05 Tim

Yeah.

00:36:05 James

So panels were a little bit more sturdy.

00:36:07 James

Let's put it that way.

00:36:08 Tim

They were.

00:36:09 Tim

Then we got the memory got C10, which is the bigger, bigger, much bigger family car, which I drove out in with you, I believe, and out in Spain.

00:36:20 Tim

I did the Reeve, the range extender version.

00:36:23 Tim

Yeah.

00:36:24 James

There's A B10, isn't there?

00:36:26 Tim

The B10, yes, the B10.

00:36:28 Tim

And it's, you know, again, it's yes, another Chinese

00:36:34 Tim

brand.

00:36:34 Tim

And just speaking to someone today who's so not into cars, it's untrue.

00:36:38 Tim

And they said, what is this about all these different cars I keep seeing?

00:36:42 Tim

I just don't recognise any of them.

00:36:43 Tim

Some are called weird, what?

00:36:46 Tim

So, you know, the public, the non-car loving public is starting to notice.

00:36:52 Tim

And of course, you can't help but notice these cars.

00:36:54 Tim

So there is, if you like, an invasion, if that's the right word to use.

00:36:58 Tim

There is an invasion of Chinese cars.

00:37:01 Tim

But hey, like I said, with

00:37:03 Tim

Cherry, if they're bringing jobs, is it a bad thing?

00:37:06 James

Another weird brand that's coming over is Changan.

00:37:10 James

My first experience with Changan was driving one of their Toyota Hilux knock-off pickups in Saudi Arabia, and I have to say it wasn't very good.

00:37:21 Tim

But in what way wasn't it good?

00:37:22 Tim

Was it just cheap plastic key?

00:37:24 Tim

It didn't handle.

00:37:24 James

Well, the entertainment, it was basically the 1980s called and what their entertainment bank now started.

00:37:31 James

And this was a brand new car as well.

00:37:33 James

And I was never really sure whether it was in two or four wheel drive.

00:37:37 James

I mean, it was fine, you know, for driving around, driving around Saudi Arabia, where frankly, you have more things to worry about than the car that you're driving, which is basically the other drivers on the road, because that is the most insane.

00:37:51 James

place to drive.

00:37:53 James

I mean, but Changan's come, I don't think we're getting the Changan brand itself in the UK yet.

00:37:59 James

They are in Europe, but they're bringing this brand called Depal that's being launched.

00:38:04 James

The S07 is coming over, so that's another one.

00:38:07 James

Skywell, I think you've driven the, I haven't driven the B11.

00:38:11 Tim

The B, was it the BE11?

00:38:13 Tim

This is B11, yeah.

00:38:16 Tim

Now, these car names aren't...

00:38:20 James

It's a really catchy name.

00:38:22 Tim

I was going to say, now the brand might be sort of decent enough names, but the actual model name isn't exactly that catchy.

00:38:29 Tim

But then again, look at BMW.

00:38:31 Tim

They haven't exactly, you know, made great dynamic names with their cars, have they?

00:38:35 Tim

You know, BMW 3, the one, 5, the seven.

00:38:39 Tim

So maybe we don't need dynamic names, but

00:38:42 Tim

I don't know.

00:38:42 Tim

I mean, do you think it's too much for the average Joe in this country and Josephine to cope?

00:38:49 James

With these?

00:38:49 James

I mean, there's so many of them.

00:38:50 James

I mean, I was in Australia a couple of years ago, and so Havill is another brand.

00:38:55 Tim

Havill, was it Havill or Havill Jolly and Pro?

00:38:58 Tim

I don't know.

00:39:00 James

I know my hire car, I was supposed to get a Hyundai, and they ended up giving me this thing called a LDV.

00:39:08 James

D90, which is actually part of SAIC.

00:39:10 James

So it's like it was like a big MGZS.

00:39:16 James

It was a diesel.

00:39:17 James

It's massive.

00:39:17 James

It's actually, again, that was had the worst infotainment system on the planet.

00:39:21 James

But actually the seven seater set up on it was really easy to use and it was in terms of interior space, it was great.

00:39:28 James

I mean, one other brand I want to talk about actually, which is in the UK, is XPeng.

00:39:35 Tim

Yes.

00:39:36 James

I do wonder how

00:39:37 James

people in the UK take the naming of that because it's unashamedly the Chinese brand.

00:39:45 Tim

Chinese for that.

00:39:46 Tim

Is it X Peng or X Pang?

00:39:48 Tim

How do you pronounce that?

00:39:48 James

I would think you'd probably you probably most people are going it's Peng in it's Peng, mate.

00:39:54 James

That car's Peng, which is I might be too useful for you.

00:39:58 Tim

You're being down with the kids from about 20 years ago.

00:40:04 James

All the Gen Z people have just turned off this podcast.

00:40:06 James

Oh my god.

00:40:07 Tim

They turned off about 20 minutes ago.

00:40:09 James

Yeah.

00:40:10 Tim

We went to that launch, didn't we?

00:40:11 Tim

went to that X10 launch in London.

00:40:16 Tim

Amazing things out there.

00:40:18 Tim

Yeah.

00:40:19 James

The drone thing.

00:40:19 James

I mean, they've got, I mean, they're very, very understandably trying to outdo Tesla because they've got a robot and they've got this incredible six-wheel thing that carries a

00:40:33 James

It's a human-sized drone that you can see inside.

00:40:37 James

And the whole idea, I was chatting to Brian Gu, the vice chairman and co-president, basically the technical mind behind the company, talked to him a couple of times.

00:40:44 James

I was chatting to him at the Festival of Speed recently.

00:40:46 James

And you know, he's saying they've got 5,000 orders for that.

00:40:49 James

You know, that's not the cheapest of kit.

00:40:51 James

And the whole thing is, they're working with

00:40:55 James

cities to find areas where you're allowed to ride to go flying.

00:40:59 James

So you take this, basically this van transporter, they call it something like the land aircraft carrier, I think that's what they call it internally.

00:41:08 James

And you go out to like a park or a scenic area and you kind of get in your drone and go for 1/2 hour flight in your drone.

00:41:16 James

It's super easy to, so they're doing that.

00:41:18 James

And you know, they've got really advanced self-driving that they're not allowed to bring to Europe yet, but it's big and

00:41:25 James

in China.

00:41:26 Tim

Big in Japan, I thought you were going to say for a moment there.

00:41:28 James

Only the G6, have you driven the G6?

00:41:33 Tim

Yes, I have actually, yes.

00:41:35 Tim

And I wasn't quite as impressed as I thought it was going to be because it looks good, but it didn't drive very well.

00:41:42 James

When I drove it in Europe, I wasn't as impressed with it as I thought I would be.

00:41:46 James

But the driving, I mean, in terms of like the equipment, absolutely brilliant.

00:41:51 James

The interior, the looks of it, absolutely brilliant.

00:41:54 James

But they've tightened it up.

00:41:55 James

And when I've driven it in the UK, I found the driving of it a lot better in the UK.

00:42:00 James

Because I think they've changed it, but they've got a new version of it coming out.

00:42:04 James

They're switching to LFP batteries.

00:42:06 James

They've got some record for going over 400 kilowatts in terms of charging speed.

00:42:10 James

So, with LFP and that kind of charging speed, LFP, one of the great characteristics of it is that you can charge up to 100% without worrying about it so much.

00:42:20 James

You get more of the capacity, you can make more use of the full capacity of the battery without worrying about, because I think the average LMC battery pack has something like 1500 charge discharge cycles before it starts to really degrade.

00:42:34 James

But for LFP, it's like 4000.

00:42:37 James

if you think that you probably only charge your electric car every couple of weeks, that's going to last an absolute lifetime.

00:42:45 James

So, I think that's so I mean, we've we've we've talked about there must have been a Chinese brand that's come over that we've missed there, but there's you can see there's absolutely tons of them.

00:42:57 Tim

So many.

00:42:58 Tim

I mean, by the time this goes out, well, by the time this goes out, there'll be another one, I can guarantee it.

00:43:04 Tim

My favourite Chinese brand.

00:43:07 Tim

I think it's a toss-up between MG and BYD at the moment.

00:43:13 James

Yeah.

00:43:14 Tim

I would say.

00:43:15 Tim

Yeah.

00:43:16 James

I am seriously, and I think I live a continual mid-life crisis, but I am thinking of a really quite fancy a cyber star and I know.

00:43:25 Tim

They're great.

00:43:25 Tim

They are great, aren't they?

00:43:26 James

So, I mean, I mean, obviously it's not actually any faster than the Tesla that I drive and the tech is worse, but just the whole kind of experience of it.

00:43:36 Tim

Yeah, I mean, it was a right laugh when we did the launch in Scotland.

00:43:39 Tim

It looks great.

00:43:40 Tim

Some people say the back end looks a bit weirdly Volvo-like.

00:43:44 James

Yeah, they said that about me, but as well.

00:43:46 Tim

No, but it's a great looking car as far as I'm concerned.

00:43:49 Tim

I think you obviously, you know, it drives well.

00:43:52 Tim

It's just

00:43:53 Tim

Not quite a.

00:43:54 James

Sports car, but in terms of like, but it's super fast and it's super, I think it's so fun to drive still.

00:44:01 Tim

It has its issues, from what I remember, the screen's down here somewhere and you can't see half of it because the steering wheel was meant to be a yoke or something, wasn't it?

00:44:10 Tim

wasn't meant to be a full steering wheel.

00:44:12 Tim

But anyway, you can forget and forgive its sort of slight flaws and just really enjoy it.

00:44:18 Tim

It's a great, it's an example of an electric car that is just fun.

00:44:20 Tim

And I think that'll be...

00:44:23 Tim

Potentially, they'll be sort of modern classics, I think.

00:44:26 James

I mean, I'm thinking I might pick one up second hand at some point.

00:44:30 James

I mean, it's moving so fast.

00:44:32 James

I mean, another recent thing that, I think a couple of days ago from the time we were recording this, it was announced that, you know, China's hit a 51% market share of, I think that's electrified vehicles.

00:44:45 James

I think that's plug-in hybrids and battery electric vehicles, but still,

00:44:48 James

If you think about the potential of that market and how fast it's growing, that's a real, real turning point.

00:44:54 James

So what do you think?

00:44:55 James

Do you think the car market will be Chinese dominated in five to 10 years time?

00:45:00 Tim

Yeah, but I think it could be dominated in three to five years time.

00:45:03 Tim

I think it's becoming, it's well, how many launches, how many brand launches?

00:45:08 Tim

I've been to two in the last year, you know, which are Chinese and then how many car launches on top of that we've been to?

00:45:15 Tim

How many BYD launches, for instance?

00:45:18 Tim

Honey MG launches.

00:45:19 Tim

It's just becoming.

00:45:21 James

Well, I had a I had a period of a month where I think I drove 5 mid-sized electric SUVs made in China.

00:45:29 James

You know, the Zika 7X, Deepal SO7, Hashtag 5, C Lion 7, that's four.

00:45:38 James

I think C10, that's another one, so that's five.

00:45:40 James

I think there's a couple of others.

00:45:42 James

I think I think the European brands have really got to watch themselves and

00:45:47 James

because it's coming as a juggernaut coming, and only protectionism is only going to go so far.

00:45:54 Tim

Yeah, and listen, people just can't afford what they used to be able to afford.

00:45:57 Tim

I'm not going to go on too much about it, but generally, wages, certainly when it comes to freelance fees, they've all stayed pretty much the same for a long time.

00:46:06 Tim

And of course, everything's gone up.

00:46:07 James

So if you employ Tim, he's asking for a pay rise.

00:46:11 Tim

But a lot of people can't afford a car.

00:46:13 Tim

I mean, you know, as I say.

00:46:15 Tim

ages back in the podcast, we're driving around a lot of the time in my daughter's 12-year-old Corsa manual, no safety really, apart from the old, well, of course, seatbelt and the old airbags.

00:46:26 Tim

But it just, you know, it works.

00:46:28 Tim

And I think people, well, they are, they're holding on to their second-hand cars longer and longer and longer.

00:46:33 Tim

I think the average age of...

00:46:34 Tim

I heard of a car in the UK is now 10 years old, something like that.

00:46:38 James

Well, the thing is cars last a bit longer.

00:46:40 James

I mean, I had them, you know, I've had quite a few old cars, quite a few cars.

00:46:44 James

I had one, I think it was like a 13-year-old Corsa.

00:46:48 James

I had a 15-year-old Nova, which is what the Corsa was before.

00:46:53 James

And both of those cars were virtually, virtually knackered by that point.

00:46:57 James

Yeah, The Porsche wasn't, but that's a quality brand.

00:47:02 James

But you know, nowadays, you know.

00:47:05 Tim

And this is the thing, going back to what you said about the image of some of these Chinese cars for people who aren't in the know, that's the majority of the people out there who don't do what we do.

00:47:15 Tim

They've got this sort of impression that, is it going to be cheap?

00:47:19 Tim

Is it going to be plastic keys?

00:47:20 Tim

Is it going to break?

00:47:21 Tim

How long will it last?

00:47:23 Tim

You know, and I, well, we know that might have been true, as you said as well, you know, 10, 15 years ago, but now, wow, there's some real quality products out there.

00:47:33 James

But I think, just to finish off, the look at look at what's happened with the Korean brands, Hyundai and Kia used to be like bargain basement, but now look at look at what they're producing and how they're viewed.

00:47:45 James

I don't think people look at things like the EV9, EV3 and think, or even the Insta, frankly, Insta's cheap and it's super funky, you know, and you know, the or that, you know, the Hyundai Ioniq 5, 5N is, you know, arguably one of the best sporty EVs

00:48:02 James

yet, Ionic 9 is shaping up to be really, really good.

00:48:09 James

So we haven't really answered the question, but we think it's highly likely that you could, in the next five years time, you could be thinking about buying a Chinese electric car.

00:48:20 James

So yeah.

00:48:23 Tim

Definitely.

00:48:24 Tim

I think clearly people are buying Chinese electric cars at the moment.

00:48:28 Tim

They're not electric, they're hybrids, if you feel the JQs that are going around.

00:48:32 Tim

So yes, I think another five years from now, there'll be a lot more Chinese cars on driveways and parks outside people's houses.

00:48:40 James

So I'd like to say thank you in Chinese, but I don't speak any.

00:48:43 James

So that's it for today's podcast.

00:48:46 James

We've been James Morris and Tim Barnes Clay, and you've been a great audience.

00:48:50 James

Please subscribe to our podcast if you haven't already.

00:48:53 James

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00:48:58 James

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00:49:04 James

And of course, please come back to our website, whichev.net for the most recent news, reviews and features on everything electric vehicle.

00:49:12 James

We'll sign off with a bit more of our theme tune, which is called Gun It to the Red Light by Three Colour Dessert, a local London band.

00:49:19 James

Keep an eye out for their forthcoming gigs.

00:49:22 James

We'll talk to you next episode.